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Post No.: 0998immigrants


Furrywisepuppy says:


The free movement of labour usually overall expands the pie rather than shrinks it. In the UK, before and after Brexit, immigrants didn’t and don’t claim more in welfare benefits than born-and-bred British citizens on average.


What’s wrong with people migrating to try to better the lives of themselves and their families anyway? Some immigration control is justifiable, but severe immigration policies are like allergic histamine reactions to harmless things – we, the nation, react negatively to foreign entities that are harmless or even beneficial to us, and it’s actually this ‘defensive’ reaction itself that causes pain and problems to ourselves. Attacking what’s overall harmless is what causes us suffering. Satisfactorily sorting out Brexit still really continues 8 years on, and the UK has been economically worse off out compared to in the EU so far.


There’s a bias too because if, say, a sportsperson like Mo Farah didn’t win gold medals whilst representing Great Britain then the fact that he was an immigrant from Somalia would’ve probably been made more prominent. No, he’s clearly 100% British to the British because he’s a winner! But this bias unfairly makes it seem like ‘all immigrants are a drain’ whilst ‘all our own people are useful and hardworking’. This bias means that immigrants and minority outgroups tend to be scapegoated for everything that goes, or is considered, wrong in our society. We’ve seen this before with the Nazis blaming Jews.


Anger against our own failures is often displaced onto easy targets like the outnumbered, for which minority groups are obviously outnumbered where they are. Blaming others may protect our self-esteem but it doesn’t inspire personal responsibility. The politically far-rightwing are most likely to believe they’re better off alone or left ‘pure’ because they think they’re more superior to everyone else.


It’s not like British tourists haven’t visited places like Spain to skip queues at home and exploit foreign healthcare systems, or don’t have emigrants who migrate from the UK to elsewhere. But we call them ‘expats’ instead of ‘immigrants’ to distance them from the associations of the latter! These ‘expats’ might not do work because they’re old and retired (hence rely heavily on the public healthcare there), often hog properties (hence local young adults find property prices too high for them even though they were born there), and sometimes don’t bother to integrate with the local culture or even learn to fluently speak the local language(!)


Some locals in Asian countries reacting with surprise if they hear a western-looking person speak their local language is like wives being surprised to find their husbands doing most of the housework – if more western-looking people spoke their local language instead of expected these locals to speak English then they wouldn’t be as surprised! It’s only surprising because it’s relatively rare. That’s why when English people hear Asian people speak English, it’s not as surprising – more foreigners bother to learn English if they visit England than English people bother to learn their language when visiting their country.


It was egocentric when some English people thought that English-dubbed Chinese or other non-English language films were ‘badly’ dubbed – as if when people speak a language other than English their mouths are supposed to nevertheless move in identical ways(!) Just listen to the movie in its original language and read the subtitles, or learn that language.


Anyway, when polling each business sector individually, people in the UK in 2023 said they wanted or needed more immigrants – from nurses, carers, fruit pickers, academics, skilled IT workers and students – all except in banking. Yet when polled generally and without context, more people thought that immigration was too high(!)


Some claim that immigrants are lazy and just want to come here to claim benefits. Yet simultaneously claim they just want to come here to work and steal ‘our’ jobs (and therefore pay taxes), and win ‘our’ talent competitions!


It’s all ‘open laissez-faire competition is good’ when we’re on top (often through exploitation e.g. some unscrupulous businesses treat immigrants as slaves by withholding their passports, phones and other possessions for ransom). But then it’s all ‘we must shut our borders to foreign goods and workers’ when other countries start outperforming us(!)


It’s also fine that we invaded, occupied and colonised foreign lands to try to impose our way onto the locals. But not if anyone tried to do the same to us, or simply wanted their plundered cultural artefacts to be returned to their homeland.


For those who assume Chinese people only get jobs due to diversity quotas – Chinese people earn higher grades on average than white people. So maybe white people only get jobs due to diversity quotas!


In general, more diverse and cosmopolitan places like Central London are okay with immigrants compared to less diverse places. When we get to know people or things better, we tend to become more okay around them. The imagination of a threat is often worse than the reality of living amongst that supposed threat. (Psychological horror films, where the audience fills in the gaps with their own assumptions and anticipations, are typically scarier than overtly gory films.)


We’re inclined to overestimate the number of immigrants and minority group members in our country. Minority group members like black, or homosexual or transgender, people can be over-represented in the media relative to how common they are in the national population, which can skew our perception of how common they actually are in our country.


If an Australian or Canadian style points-based immigration system is the benchmark then note that it weren’t the indigenous peoples of Australia or Canada who mostly decided this but the descendants of white European immigrants(!) Immigrants themselves – even those who know they are – can be just as against immigration as true natives, like a few British politicians in recent times (whatever a ‘true native’ means when all Homo sapiens originated from Africa). Some ethnic minority members can be bigots too.


James Cook and Abel Tasman didn’t discover Australia and New Zealand first for humans – just like Leif Erikson, never mind Christopher Columbus, didn’t discover America first. This is white European propaganda. Indigenous peoples were already living there.


In news reports in, say, England, all news pertaining to foreigners will have their nationalities mentioned whereas all news pertaining to English people won’t – their local county, city or town are mentioned instead. It seems that people will always be categorised according to where they come from. People can self-identify. Groups can naturally self-segregate, which is, somewhat, okay too. But discriminatory identifications or coerced segregations are unacceptable.


Attempting to divide the world in simple ways is often fallacy. For instance, it’s too oversimplistic to group countries into developing or developed countries or the Global South and Global North (hence why Fluffystealthkitten and I always put these terms in inverted commas) because countries are developing/developed in various ways (e.g. Qatar is defined by the International Monetary Fund as developing despite having one of the highest GDPs per capita in the world).


There can be a tension between being open to cultural and religious diversity and trying to preserve existing local traditions. This is the broad tension between liberalism and conservatism. Immigrants should at least integrate by learning to speak the main local language to a competent level for practical reasons, but must they wear similar attires or eat the same foods as us? It’s okay for immigrants to practise their own faith (e.g. have their own places of worship) but we don’t want them trying to enforce their own laws anywhere here (e.g. Sharia law). Ultimately everything we do needs to follow the laws of the country we’re presently in. We can attempt to get a bill passed through parliament… or move to another country.


After the Brexit referendum, people with covert racist views felt more confident in overtly expressing these views because they felt they were more legitimised after the result.


People become more likely to express prejudice when they experience a drop in self-esteem. People with low self-esteem may attempt to pick on those whom they perceive as weaker than them, as bullies classically do. And when they put someone else down, they feel a boost to their own fragile egos. Intelligent – albeit not emotionally and socially intelligent – people can sometimes possess unbearable egos; and when they feel like they’re in a competition, can let their egos override the smart thing to do, which is to cooperate with others.


Many ethnic majority people don’t realise the amount of covert and overt discrimination that ethnic minority people routinely face. Most people simply generally don’t fully mentally register certain issues until and unless they personally affect them or their family (e.g. disability rights, lupus). But we should find the compassion to care about issues before they personally affect us, because they affect others. Things are just when they’re just for everyone – not only when they start to benefit oneself.


Ethnic minority people who are born-and-bred in the country they’re presently in can be confronted with, “No, where are you really from?” questions(!) Racist views indeed speak about the racist, not about those they’re supposedly judging. If you say and believe in racist things then you are racist – it doesn’t matter if you believe you’re not.


Some bigots assume members of other groups all collude or somehow possess a hive mind – hence the exclamation, “I’ve told you lot before” when the bigot has only started talking to a particular individual today! Another presumption is assuming that, if you’re an ethnic minority member, you ought to know everything about the country you’re supposedly ‘from’!


Other individuals with the same ethnicity or nationality as you aren’t you. That was the keynote of Post No.: 0985. Therefore what has what some other people say or do got to do with someone else who’s supposedly associated with that group, unless they support them or, possibly, benefited from the situation and try to pretend that they didn’t or don’t? Alas, we apply the outgroup homogeneity bias. It’s ‘damn them lot’ if some members of an outgroup commit something heinous, yet it’s not ‘damn us lot’ but just those specific individuals if some members of our ingroup commit something heinous.


There should be no ‘exotic person’ in terms of physical appearance because people should be worldly enough in this modern day to not find anyone ‘exotic’.


People with names we’re personally unfamiliar with pronouncing because they’re from a different background or language we’re used to might cause us to avoid including them in our activities or groups – or we’ll just point at them, shorten their names or give them nicknames they didn’t ask for. So learn to properly say people’s names rather than ignore or neglect people just because you’re afraid of mispronouncing their names.


Although positive furry role models like the Muslim footballer Mohamed Salah can help, the onus isn’t on discriminated groups to boost their own image.


Our governments cannot hold the moral high ground over corrupt foreign governments by copying what they do too. We cannot spread unfounded claims of foreign subterfuge, block foreign competition just because we’re losing to them, censor those we disagree with or who criticise us, or regard the accused as guilty before we’ve proven they are – otherwise we’ll be no better than them.


Woof. Many of us will die having never learnt that many of our prejudices were in fact wrong. It makes one hope/wish there is/were a God who, after we die, straightens out all of the things we got incorrect in our entire lives that we never corrected whilst alive – like all the times we feared someone would’ve harmed us when they never would have yet we treated them frostily because of this fear, the times we doubted someone so never gave them a chance to flourish, the times we didn’t realise someone was suffering from a mental health problem thus we judged them harshly, and so on.


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