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Post No.: 0248bodies

 

Furrywisepuppy says:

 

We’ll continue straight from Post No.: 0241 and our discussion on transgender and gender reassignment issues.

 

Fluffystealthkitten says:

 

Sitting comfortably. I’m ready!

 

Furrywisepuppy says:

 

There’s an argument that it’s actually a section of the transgender community that’s perpetuating gender stereotypes. Some of them are the ones urging that young people (who are often still unsure or confused about their own bodies and feelings) must be proactively encouraged and supported in their gender reassignment – to be gender affirmative – even if they only have the faintest feeling that they’re in the wrong body.

 

So this doesn’t speak about them all but a subset of the transgender community are the ones with these fixed ideas of gender boxes – of being ‘born into the wrong box’. But maybe we should really challenge the notion of these ‘boxes’ and what a ‘correct box’ is supposed to be? They’ve been accused of being too political and emotional rather than scientific too, and could be accused of trying to tell parents what to do with their own children regarding something that isn’t clear-cut regarding harm (unlike e.g. protecting children from obesity and obesity-related diseases). They can be criticised for hypocritically using intolerance against (perceived) intolerance, against those who wish to encourage their children to remain the gender they were assigned at birth – calling anyone who stands in the way of gender affirmation, or gender reassignment for a child as soon as possible, as ‘transphobic’.

 

Fluffystealthkitten says:

 

There exist genuinely transphobic people in this world, but I’m aware that there’s a very vocal and angry subset of people who are afraid of exploring the stories of those who regret their transitions or were glad they held it off. But everyone’s perspectives must be shared.

 

Transgender people do exist so it’s not a question of their existence. It’s however not transphobic to inform about this other side – in fact it’d be narrow-minded to deny the existence of those who regretted their transition or were glad they didn’t transition. This I guess would be ‘detransphobic’ or discriminatory against those who remained their assigned gender at birth.

 

It’s like it’s not denying that people who are black but want to be lighter-skinned exist just because some people are trying to make people pause a moment and think before using skin bleaching products. Or it’s like it’s not denying that people who are white but want to be darker-skinned exist just because some people are trying to make people pause a moment and think before getting tanned. And similarly, it’s like it doesn’t matter if you’re black, white or something else – and there’s surely nothing wrong with trying to make people feel happy to be in whatever colour skin they happened to be born with, and for this reason to make people pause and think more carefully before attempting to reassign their skin colour… or indeed their gender in this present case.

 

Furrywisepuppy says:

 

If there weren’t any risks from transitioning and it was always plain sailing and problem-free then no one would bother to encourage gender dysphoric people to pause and think before commencing – but there are potential risks. It isn’t a simply reversible procedure like dyeing your hair or changing your clothes. It’s a serious life-impacting change.

 

If after you’ve been armed with more knowledge and still want to go ahead with transitioning then that’s fine and everyone should be supportive of that, but both your heart and your head must be sure. And it’s got to be a person’s own but properly informed choice.

 

…And really, society should be totally accepting of a person who looks like a boy and has boy parts but wishes to play with dolls or wear makeup, and be totally accepting of a person who looks like a girl and has girl parts but wishes to play rough sports and go camping, or any other possible combination.

 

This means that people can be whoever they want to be without stigma or causing surprise, and thus be without the mental health problems that are caused by stigma. And in turn, people may end up feeling less pressured to wish to hormonally or surgically change their bodies just to feel ‘normal’ and to ‘fit in’ with society (and all the health risks and financial costs involved) – because they should feel accepted already.

 

Fluffystealthkitten says:

 

I couldn’t concur more that people should be accepted in whatever bodies they were born in, whether they seem to have a male body but a female mind, a female body with a male mind, or anything inbetween.

 

Children shouldn’t feel as compelled to commit to hormone therapies, at least so young, since they’ll know that however they look on the outside they are accepted and not socially stigmatised – they can walk comfortably in their given skin and sexual organs, whatever they happen to be. There’ll be no conception of a ‘wrong body’ that needs to be medically or surgically ‘corrected’.

 

Rather than transition the person – transition society’s attitudes!

 

Furrywisepuppy says:

 

So this dilemma could be solved by thinking laterally. All drugs have side-effect risks and all surgeries have risks of complications. The decision for almost any medical or surgical intervention should not be taken lightly. So let’s take the pressure off gender dysphoric people to need to transition – they can feel accepted and happy with the way they’re born.

 

Fluffystealthkitten says:

 

It seems sensible for us to concurrently become culturally more accepting of intersex people (people who don’t fit into a ‘male’ or ‘female’ box) because they really aren’t hurting anyone… otherwise your pale/swarthy/whatever skin is hurting me and immorally making other people think that pale/swarthy/whatever skin is acceptable in society, etc.(!)

 

Gender is biological, not merely a social construct, but gender (and sexuality) exists on a spectrum (e.g. outright feminine, outright masculine, tomboys, camp men, androgyny, and everything inbetween) so society should learn to understand and accept this about each and every one of us, and scrap the notion of ‘fixing’ people who aren’t broke, or ‘fixing’ oneself when one is not broke.

 

It might risk creating or exacerbating mental health issues for a child if one tries to stop her/him/them from expressing the psychological gender she/he/they wants to be, yet because the current weight of evidence suggests that nurture, culture or life events (the environment) marginally has the greater role in shaping our psychological gender identity than genetics or anything innate and immutable – parents should arguably encourage their children to stick with the gender they’re born with and seek for the environment, culture or society to change instead. Society’s attitudes should progress regarding accepting gender fluidity.

 

Furrywisepuppy says:

 

A child shouldn’t feel suicidal or self-harm for feeling like they’re in the wrong body – society should accept those who are in such positions as people in their own right i.e. ‘boys in girls’ bodies’ and ‘girls in boys’ bodies’ and anything inbetween (intersex) should be as okay as ‘boys in boys’ bodies’ or ‘girls in girls’ bodies’. No need for a lifetime of drugs or to force people to decide to be either ‘boys in boys’ bodies’ or ‘girls in girls’ bodies’ or nothing at all.

 

Like with some other mental health issues – the suffering isn’t so much intrinsic to the condition itself but rather arises from how society stigmatises and discriminates against such individuals.

 

Fluffystealthkitten says:

 

Be happy in your own skin, whatever skin you happen to be born with, in a culture that doesn’t judge you if you behave and think like the opposite gender to whatever one your body was born to externally look like.

 

If I was born as a boy but felt like a girl, I’d just accept the way I look in conjunction with the way I feel.

 

…Well I’m a blue female cat and I’m not going to change that about me!

 

Furrywisepuppy says:

 

And that hasn’t ever bothered me either!

 

Fluffystealthkitten says:

 

A sexually-aroused person might mistake a man for a woman, or vice-versa – but they likely didn’t ask to be objectified based on superficial cues anyway! It’s like if you glanced at a figure and thought she/he was sexy, then found out it was only a mannequin – it’s hardly the mannequin’s fault(!) You can argue with the mannequin all you like about it ‘duping you’ but you won’t win!

 

Get to know people on a deeper level before finding them attractive. There’s however arguably a duty for a gender dysphoric or transgender person to then be upfront and honest about their gender to a potential date before an intimate relationship starts though because it’s not fair on the other person. Some will feel hurt to fall in love with someone whom is not whom they thought. If you truly love someone – be truthful.

 

Furrywisepuppy says:

 

The body parts should ideally be irrelevant to what a person wants to do in life in all but the most specific of cases, and we should all be judged only by what we do, not by what we look like i.e. gender stereotypes should be virtually eradicated in our workplaces. Things such as keeping separate toilet rooms are probably fine though.

 

Fluffystealthkitten says:

 

Erm, but there’s a difficult debate about which toilets transgender people should go to in public spaces! A person should go to the toilet her/his psychological gender identity is, yet some people worry about people pretending to be e.g. a female, but just wanting to go to the women’s toilets and being a pervert!

 

Transgender women are women, and transgender men are men – yet some cisgender women will not feel comfortable sharing bathrooms with transgender women and their rights must be taken into account too.

 

Maybe all public toilets of the future should be unisex then i.e. separate cubicles?! Just like at home.

 

Furrywisepuppy says:

 

Now that you’ve got me thinking, there are potentially many other loopholes in many other situations if people can easily declare and transition to whatever gender they now (purport to) feel they are. For instance, a man pretending and suddenly declaring that he’s actually a woman in order to be imprisoned in a women’s prison instead of a men’s prison. So these situations must be anticipated and safeguarded against somehow. Maybe these people should be forced to undertake a medical and/or surgical transition to prove that their desire to change their gender is genuine? But this goes against an ‘accept people in the bodies they’re born with, if they’re happy in them themselves, whatever gender they feel like they are on the inside’ society!

 

And well, which prison should intersex people go to anyway? If there were a third type of prison then that would likely cost extra taxpayers’ money to implement and maintain.

 

Fluffystealthkitten says:

 

Perhaps gender for humans was always complicated rather than binary but it’s only been relatively recently accepted as being complicated. Yet some people will argue that it’s all a faff and we should stick to there just being ‘women’ and ‘men’ for pragmatic reasons, without needing to argue on the basis that ‘there are only biologically two genders full-stop’. So there could be people who accept that gender is not binary yet nonetheless want to keep a largely binary-gender world for practical reasons.

 

Furrywisepuppy says:

 

Uh! It’s no doubt a highly complex issue that doesn’t affect just individuals or individual groups – but entire societies. In some contexts, these issues concerning gender dysphoric people affect cisgender people too hence the latter do have a legitimate voice in this debate. I think the only naïve view is thinking that the issue is simple.

 

But at least we’ve both been discussing it courteously!

 

Fluffystealthkitten says:

 

Absolutely. We don’t claim to have found definite, workable answers but we’ve deliberated like adults, even though I’m just a kitten.

 

Furrywisepuppy says:

 

And I’m just a puppy.

 

Fluffystealthkitten says:

 

Meow.

 

Furrywisepuppy says:

 

Woof.

 

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